DISQUS

Carlos · 11 months ago

This is so fucked up. Especially because there are so many traditional agencies out there that don't have the digital capabilities or experience necessary to support many clients but like to think they do. In the end everyone loses. Handle what you do best & leave the rest for the experts.

tephlondon · 11 months ago

thats so grimey, r/ga loses bigtime. Carlos is right. Most id say 95% of the traditional folks cant translate their ideas to a digital domain, most dont even know what digital is. A similiar but another sad story happened not to long ago with bbdo/bigspaceship. Clients should start thinking digital first, instead of the other way around. R/ga did a much better job on pepsi than tbwa, and what sucks is its tbwa's account. U can call it getting beat, when ur supposed to be running the show.

interactive guy · 11 months ago

I could care less about the politics but whoever designed and built refresheverything.com should be fired. The user interface/navigation is horrible. I cant believe the logo in the top left has a different background color than the nav bar. They also don't know how to set up frames in flash. Looks like a real amateur job. Maybe if R/GA didn't put the D team on it, they would have been fine.

HA · 11 months ago

Can't wait to see the stellar digital work from Tequila, or maybe they'll get Agency.com in NY to execute it...

typical · 11 months ago

Wait, you mean a clueless dinosaur general agency was more concerned with having control, so they could slap their uber lame offline campaign assets everywhere, than with their clients using digital to help their business? Nice work guys.

felix · 11 months ago

Such a lazy concept for a site too, both should be ashamed for riding the obama express. Its just a lame concept, throw video content on a page. Its been done before, im not impressed. How is this gonna make me wanna go buy a pepsi?

Typical · 11 months ago

To be honest this happens more often than people think. Traditional agency full of old schoolers with inflated egos who think because they can create a TV spot that is Super Bowl worthy knows how to tackle digital. All Chiat is going to do is find a digital shop they can farm the digital work out to but it will be their ideas. With the state of the economy as it is right now, Chiat will have no problem whatsoever finding a shop that is willing to cash thier checks and crank out bad traditional ideas forced into a digital space. Chiat is not the first to do it and definitely wont be the last. At the end of the day even the best digital shops that have to work with offline AOR's still have to fight for an equal seat at the table with equal say. Until client's stop actling like George Bushes with thier traditional AOR's being the Cheneys and Karl Roves in the relationship, digital shops are just going to heave to deal with it... unfortunately.

c'mon · 11 months ago

And until digital agencies learn that there's a difference between concept and execution, they won't get a seat. Sorry, but it's true.

sorry... · 11 months ago

...traditional ad guy, but the best digital agencies can do everything general can, period. Try to keep it a secret as long as you can, because once clients catch on to this, the game will be up for the dinosaurs.

c'mon · 11 months ago

I totally agree. But the best digital agencies are usually also the best traditional agencies (Crispin, Goodby, Droga5, et al).

sorry... · 11 months ago

Ha, Droga 5??? Like the guys who did Honeyshed Droga 5?? Look, all it takes for digital agencies to get good at advertising is to hire some people with advertising experience, and they have been doing that. It's a totally different scene inside these shops that it was 2 years ago. On the other hand, digital is much harder for general agencies who only understand TV to learn. The game's almost over. The future is digital my friend.

c'mon · 11 months ago

Again, I totally agree. Digital is the future. But that doesn't mean that digital as it is currently practiced, or the digital agencies who are currently practicing it, are also the future. Now that digital is hip and cool, it's easy to make fun of agencies with a traditional pedigree, but the truth is that a lot of the best digital work is coming out of those same agencies.

Digital agencies can hire trad experience and trad agencies can hire digital experience. It's a two way street. I don't believe the future belongs to places like R/GA any more than it belongs to places like JWT. Just like the trads have a long way to go before they can be integrated shops, the digis have a long way to go before they can own a brand.

sorry... · 11 months ago

All I can say is, you'll see. What you are saying might have been true a year ago, but some of the digital shops are a lot closer to taking over brands than you think.

Jay · 11 months ago

ABSOLTELY CORRECT!

c'mon · 11 months ago

Seriously, Matt. Could you maybe be a little bit more critical about R/GA instead of riding the Bob Greenberg PR express all the time? The "Dear Mr. President" stuff is typical of R/GA's process: take an idea that already floating out there on the web, dress it up a little with design, bury in under the same bad UI they use for everything, and then claim that they're insane digital innovators from the future. The reason they can get away with this? Because the media is constantly on their jock.

I'm not saying that the Chiat work isn't a piece of shite, because it is. And I'm not saying that trad and digi shouldn't get along. But when you write things like, "...cuz being steeped in digital probably means you know what you're doing," you're just buying into the same pixie dust everyone else is snorting. R/GA is a great design agency and a terrible advertising agency. End of story.

Matt · 11 months ago

Yeah that could have used some more 'splainin. What I didn't bore you with was the stuff about how R/GA used to be a production house...only. So, like most other digital shops they've got a background in getting shit done.

What I didn't do was say, "they're steeped in design, flawless execution, etc etc." because it wouldn't be true. You'd say O&M was steeped in print, because that's what made them the agency they came to be.

I'll be critical of them when it's appropriate.

makemyday · 11 months ago

Theres a big fight brewing for the past few years digital vs traditional

Traditional people think
1.its all about the idea
2.execution can always be farmed out/done cheaply
3.I dont need a online portfolio-- i have a "book" or connections
4. We can handle print tv
5.All i need to know is photoshop
6.I spent 2 years at a ad school

Digital people think
1. its about he idea and the execution
2. good execution can be done by a small # of shops
3. I need a online portfolio, what the hell is a book?
4. We can do it all
5. I need to know photoshop, illustrator, after effects and flash
6.I spent 4 years at a new media design school

All thats stoping the digital agencies from taking over is clients, clients are too stupid to realize that were living in a digital age, and are still abiding by the the old rules of a traditional past. But in this case r/ga and tbwa did some bad creative work/ the tv and online campaigns really said nothing at all. throwing video content on a page is not cool, or impressive. Traditional folks will always be at war with digital folks. Its sad but ive seen very few campaigns go smoothly without beefing from the traditional and digital agencies involved, egos, prizes, awards, credit is all on the line so theres always gonna be war.

Fred · 11 months ago

There's definitely more to it than your post. The infamous Massimo had a hand in this one and the people here at Pepsi are pissed off.

Also, what digital has Chiat ever produced? They have no business in this space, especially since it seems most of their top creative leaders despise and resent the internet...oh yeah, that's where the money is going.

Wildside · 11 months ago

Can we stop this fake war? You've all generalized to the point of meaninglessness.

Traditional agencies can't ramp up to do digital? Um...tell that to Goodby - which had ALL print and TV creatives 2 years ago. Now they win more awards and do more great digital than just about anyone.

adrefugee · 11 months ago

Regardless of all the infighting, and the fact that Arnell is in the mix with the horrid brand redesign (if you can call it that), the work--all of it--sucks. But, in these times, it's not about the work so Chiat--as it does with Nissan and WaMu, etc--will polish the heck out of this turd as long as Pepsi's checks clear.

darth digital · 11 months ago

It goes without saying that some traditional shops have done meaningful digital work. What's going to happen next, I think, is that you'll start seeing digital agencies being awarded AOR (as opposed to DAOR) for major brands. And that will be the end of the road for agencies like Chiat that culturally don't get digital and think it's basically another groovy place to "extend" the look and feel of their billboards and run their latest :30.

binary harry · 11 months ago

Please don't even bring up awards when you talk about traditional agency types doing digital. The hopelessly named "cyber' awards that get handed out at Cannes each year show that awards judges come from the same clueless lot that makes these online experiences. Goodby's Milk site winning so many awards, for example, show that some of us are still amazed by the novelty that something that looks graphically cool is online, rather than seeing that it was in fact a horrible set of derivative games that takes a ton of time to load, have horrible game-play and do nothing more than lead users through a series of pre-prescribed choices. Same thing with Uniqlo's online stuff. Looks cool, does nothing.

Interactive allows you to be smarter, better marketers (it's beyond advertising, because the best digital minds, I feel, go beyond "awareness.") It's about relevance, usefulness and credibility. Hopefully, clients will become more aware of this and make changes accordingly. Agencies will hopefully change the pay structure of creatives to emphasize less on rigged, fake-ads winning awards and more on actual results and meaningful interactions with clients' customers and potential customers.

kyle · 11 months ago

Let's be honest... digital shops are nothing more than hands, or at worst, a sub par partner you're stuck with. Ideas are ideas. Chiat will do fine with the web stuff. Show me a digital agency that had and executed a big idea and I'll start believing they are anything more than vendors with ridiculous sounding names.

better looking kyle · 11 months ago

Didn't R/GA pioneer Nike Plus and Nike ID? Then there was Barbarian Group with Subserviant Chicken, yeah I said Barbarian Group not Crispin.
aren't those huge ideas? You can ask that same question of any agency . The real truth is, this whole industry is suffering from crap work and a lot of guys from the traditional side (Like myself) have migrated over to smaller boutiques like Anomoly and Droga and R/GA because they can be nimble and approach these problems with different filters. Kyle is probably one of those guys that likes to hear himself talk and probably works at a place like Chiat, but barely made it through ad school and works on Pizza Hut. Well, that is unless he's been fired from this last round of lay offs.

This industry is full of hacks and has been for a while, but that's not new its just a little more obvious. The traditional model is and has always been, sell through an idea and then rely on all of the best directors, outside shops and production houses to make it look better than the agency ever could and that is still how a lot of the bigger places do it, thats how Goodby has won most of it's "digital" awards, they just haven't figured out how to get paid for that stuff. It's just a different time and the production companies have figured that out and are getting a lot better at telling stories, so I don't think anyone should be sitting smug. The old days are gone, clients know a lot more than they should and the younger they get, the more big ideas you'll see coming out of the smaller, cheaper shops. That's just the way it goes. and while we are on the subject of chiat and ideas . . . you are saying that those billboards that look a lot like the att campaign from 2 years ago http://www.adrants.com/images/att_blogging_deli...
and say crap like Yo and Fo Sho is a big idea that has been executed well?
Yeah, I can't wait to see them put that online, because people really care about that kind of thing.

The funnier thing is how this article has gotten everybody's panties in a bunch. My money says that Clow, Silverstein, Bogusky and Greenberg probably won't even read this.

UTBRT · 11 months ago

is nikeID the one where you design your own shoes online? i was under the impression that was developed back in 2001 or so by critical mass in calgary.

George · 11 months ago

Nike ID was developed R/GA and still is.

abcd · 11 months ago

That's a bit misleading. The concept of Nike ID, just like the concept of Nike+, was developed by Nike. They brought the concept to R/GA, and R/GA built the site. The Nike account at R/GA is much more of a production model than Bob would ever like to admit.

George · 11 months ago

abcd have you worked at either place? I worked at Nike for 9 years and R/GA gets more credit than that. And to think that both of those projects are just sites is a bit of an understatement.

Casey · 11 months ago

Like saying the Air Jordan work was brought to Weiden and they just produced the film

UTBRT · 11 months ago

ok...but i worked in the extended critical mass family from 1999-2002 and disctinctly remember them getting press coverage for "their" nikeID work. hmm...

let me break it down · 11 months ago

NikeID is a Nike Brand, like every other Nike Brand. Just because another agency worked on the brand before R/GA means nothing. Their stuff didn't work well, didn't break through, didn't realize any of its potential. R/GA created the best customization experience ever and made the brand what it is.

darth digital · 11 months ago

So, what exactly is Chiat's super original "big idea" for Pepsi? The tagline about refreshment is pure Coke. The print, besides being epically lame, is an exact copy of an AT&T campaign from two years ago. And the TV spot about people through the years has been done a million times. Does traditional have some kind of magic creative power that nobody else does? Don't flatter yourselves.

The Future · 11 months ago

Little do people know that in the past last three months, Chiat has been quietly revamping its digital capabilities with over 45 tremendously talented people from Tequila, Crispin, R/GA, etc. They have also fully acquired a digital in-house shop.

darth digital · 11 months ago

...who will be used as an in-house production capability and have no influence over the work.

Tom · 11 months ago

The Chiat Pepsi idea is lame, but it won the business. I have never seen one digital agency win a piece of new business with a marketing idea, that works in every different media available. They unfortunately are still tactics and executional thinkers. The arguments are mute until digital agencies become true AOR and not production companies. All they need to do is steal the big idea creatives in the business and start pitching.

uh huh · 11 months ago

If it was simply about ideas, then there would be better work in the marketplace, period. Unfortunately, like anything with a lot of money and a lot of hands involved, politics plays a bigger part than it should.

Chiat didn't win the business as they never pitched. It was handed to them by the Pepsi CEO. I'm guessing the subsequent release of R/GA 2 min after they won it was also done by . . . the Pepsi CEO. Not because the big pink billboards with relevant youth words like YO and HOWDY did the trick in making Pepsi cool again.

milk · 11 months ago

i agree dude.

Heres what people value in this industry in this order

1.money
2.power
3.clients
4.ego
5.connections
6.skills
7.friends
8.diversity

Traditional and digital agencies never play nice.
Most of the time by the time the digital agency gets
a crack at the creative, its gonna suck. 1.First clients go to the traditonal to come up with the idea. 2. That agency will then they go to the digital agency for the site 3. then the digital agency goes to the production company t4.hen the production company hires a freelancer /freelancerswho could care less about the final outcome. thats why campaigns will always suck, its a nasty food chain, no one wants to do the work, but everybody wants a award and full credit when it goes big. chiat doesnt even play nice with tequilla what makes u think they will play nice with r/ga. Its about politics, all the way. People are mean, for whatever reason.

Leo · 11 months ago

This is totally true. We have to start hiring conceptual marketing creatives that are big idea thinkers. It's the only way we will defeat the those traditional companies. I'm always fighting for more that just tactics, but it's an uphill battle.

Dook · 11 months ago

lol @ kyle.
if that's the case, why are your agencies dying and shrinking while the digis are growing? where's your money? oh, that's right... it's in the coffers of the digital agencies with the ridiculous names.

good luck with that attitude of yours when you get laid off.

GeeCee · 11 months ago

Well, whenever revenue is involved, non-digital agencies will say ANYTHING to get the work. I laugh every time Grey refers to themselves as "tradigital." Yah, you read that right: traditional + digital = tradigital. Holy fucktards Batman!

Angel · 11 months ago

This has massmio written all over it. He and Arnell are in bed together.

I wonder when they will realize their 1 billion dollar mistake?

Unknown · 11 months ago

Today we had an agency wide meeting to showcase the horrible superbowl spots Chiat will be airing and during the presentation president Carisa Bianchi made a shitty remark to everyone about how pathetic R/GA was to think they deserved the business. This was however right before ECD Rob Schwartz presented the groundbreaking digital work of a youTube video for Pepsi. R/GA expect my resume shortly.

anonymous · 10 months ago

Hey, they also refreshed the refresheverything site with a sexy overhaul . . .